Discuss the questions as a team and have a different member post to the class blog.
- Develop the character description that you began last week. What have you now learned about the main character? Be sure to include generalizations (character traits) and support (specific details from the novel, with page numbers).
- All of your reflections on the concept of hero included the idea of facing obstacles or hardships. In what ways does your hero fit this aspect of the hero archetype? (Give specific details, including page numbers.)
- What are 1-2 substantive questions you have about the novel (i.e. character motivation, author/narrative style, cultural/historical background or context)
Due: Friday, 1/28
10 comments:
The Things They Carried
Kristen pg. 124, Isabelle pg. 45, Janelle pg. 40, Traci pg. 103
The main character is Tim O'Brien. He is the narrator. On page 32, he describes himself as a writer and he is 43 years old. In the chapter, On the Rainy River, he seemed to be a coward at first because when he got drafted for war, he was scared to go to war and he wanted to run away and become an outcast instead. (pg. 41,59, and 61).
The hero in the story is Tim O'Brien because he was a coward and didn't have enough courage to join the war. He knew that it would be difficult to join the war. Yet he didn't want to be embarrassed by not going to war.(pg.59 and 61)
1. Why does the narrator talk about other people's stories?
2. How does the stories relate to the hero?
Catcher in the Rye
Kai: pages 1-137
CJ: pages 1-187
Joseph: The entire book.
Darian: pages 80-90
Holden is the same selfish character. We have yet to see any heroic action done by Holden from our definition of a hero. He tends to call everyone a phony. And he's socially awkward. Like during that date with sally at the roller rink, he messes up the conversation and hurts Sally.
Well, Holden doesn't exactly fit the hero archetype because he ordered a prostitute (pgs. 91-104) and he is also a heavy smoker (pgs N/A)
Substantive Questions
1. Does J.D. Salinger have first hand experiences that Holden does in this book?
2. How much was $5 worth in the book compared to now?
Kiyo (45)
Korie (130)
Desiree (88)
We think that the main character in the book now is Tim O' Brien. He was a coward because he didn't want to go to war but at the same time he didn't want to be humiliated because he was running away to another country. He ended up running away to Canada to escape being apart of the war. After spending about two weeks staying at an old mans house he rethought his decision and went back to enlist. (pg.58-61)
O'Brien is a hero because of the hardships he faces in Vietnam. He tells war stories of other soldiers hardships. For example he tells about Jimmy Cross and the hardships he went through with Martha. (pg.28-30) Also he shares about the soldiers mental hardships, killing and watching people being killed everyday. Like watching the death of Ted lavender and Curt Lemmon. (pg.12-13 & 83-84) Most of his hardships are found in other soldiers stories.
Whats the difference between the Tim O' Brien author and the Tim O' Brien Character in the story?
Is there an obstacle all the characters have in common?
Catcher in the Rye
Sharmaine (Page 88), Shannel (page 70), Shaneika (page 90)
1. Holden is judgemental and sarcastic. On page 86, he calls Lillian Simmons a phony because he claims that she's fake. He also keeps saying that no one likes Lillian including himself, and he forced himself to leave the club because he didn't want to hang out with her. He is a good liar and has no problem with it. When he met Mrs. Morrow (page 54-page 58), he told her that his name was Rudolf Schimdt the name of Pencey's janitor. He lies about how her son is a good student and that everybody likes Ernie.
2. He's facing his suspension from Pencey by staying at a hotel. He leaves his school 2 days before winter break and doesn't want to go home right away so his parents won't find out. He cares about his mom and decides to give his parents time to absorb the information about his suspension, so that they won't get overly stressed. (Page 51) While he was at the hotel he learned how to live on his own. (Starting on Chapter 10) He observed the reality of society. For example, when he was watching the people on the other side of the hotel, he sees a transvestite and a couple spitting wine at each other.
However, Holden is not really at the "hero" stage yet.
3. Why does he hide the way he truly feels about certain things?
and
What is Holden's ethnicity?
"The Things They Carried" by Tim O'Brien
Members: Jordie, Alex, Leo
Tim O'Brien was a guy who didn't necessarily like war but had to go through it anyways. He was the type to stress out and wasn't able to make decisions without a lot of thinking and support from somebody else. An example of this would be the chapter "On the rainy river" where he freaks out about being drafted and goes to get help from Elroy.
Tim O'Brien fits the hero aspect because in the end he tried to do what he felt was best and went to vietnam. Also when he was explaining the story to the lady he wants to say it's a love story and not a war story. He also shows the ability to move on after the war. (pg.85)
1. Is there a real main character in the story to follow?
2. Did Tim O'Brien the author write about people he knew? (Were the characters based off of real people?)
Catcher in the Rye
Maddie: Chapter 12
Jody:n/a
Rebekah: page 92
Kevin:n/a
Angela:n/a
The main character's name is Holden. Throughout the book, Holden appears to be very sarcastic and a very good liar. For instance, he lied to his history teacher, mr. spencer in the beginning of the book. Thats when he first admitted he was a really good liar. pg #16 Holden was also being sarcastic while talking to this women about her son and lied to her by saying he was a janitor who had a brain tumor pg #54.
He also has a very bad temper although he claims to be a pacifist. The first incident, he gets into a fight with his room mate Stradlater because he wouldnt talk about his date with Jane. Page 43 He also admitted to smashing windows when his brother died Page 39.
At this point in the book, i feel as though Holden does not really fit the aspect of being a hero yet. He is a heavy smoker and drinker (Pages chapter 3-12) He constantly asks random people to have cocktails with him. He even had the nerve to call Faith Cavendish and ask her out. Although he knows nothing about her, he still wants to give her a "good time". To me, Holden has not showed that he is a hero yet.
1. So far, Holden keeps thinking bout this girl named Jane. What is jane's contribution to the story line and how is she significant to the character?
2. Does his parents and family know about Holden's drinking and smoking needs?
Okay guys, here are your assessments of RC #2.
Kristen's Group:Great responses and great questions at the end. One additional question I have for your group: Look carefully at what he says about cowardice and about his decision. Read it very carefully, because it is not what you would ordinarily assume. Assessment Score: MS 3+
Kai's Group:Okay, you're getting nicely into the novel now. To help you in your discussions, think about the quiz questions I asked for RC #2. I structure them to point out important details in the novel. This might help you with the hero/not hero discussion. For your extension questions, try to go back into the novel itself. Both your questions are "outside" questions. Interesting, but not very helpful in your literary analysis process. Assessment Score: MS 3-
Kiyo's Group:Nice job on your selection of protagonist. Please read my comments to Kristen's group for help on the hero question and the book's take on courage. Nice job on your questions! Assessment Score MS 3+
Continuing here...I was afraid I'd run out of space :)
Sharmaine's Group"Very detailed description of Holden! And excellent question about why Holden hides how he feels! If you answer that one, you'll have a clue to his character and the question of whether or not he's a hero! Assessment Score: MS 3+
Alex's Group:Pretty good start on your discussion of the novel, but you need to go deeper. Your questions are okay but they will not necessarily lead to greater insight. I have a feeling more of you need to keep up on your reading for the circle dicsussions to improve. Assessment score AS 2+
Maddie & Rebekah:Nice job on your catch up reading circle. You've got a very detailed description of Holden. And your question about Jane is excellent. Go beyond the "love interest" idea and see what she represents for Holden. Interesting to look at the way he regarads/treats the different women in his life :) Assessment score MS 3+
Book Title: Catcher in the Rye
Czarina: Pg. 60
Kiana: Pg. 40
Brittany: Pg. 53
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Develop the character description that you began last week. What have you now learned about the main character? Be sure to include generalizations (character traits) and support (specific details from the novel, with page numbers).
We found that Holden despises "phonies", people who seem to be hiding their true identities and feelings within themselves. We have come to the point where Holden meets his roommate, Stradlater. They both find Jane Gallagher attractive and so one day, Stadlater takes Jane out on a date and Holden grows worried that Stradlater might make a sexual move on Jane, who Holden has strong feelings towards. We also evaluated that he is "awkward" and doesn't seem to interact much with others.
All of your reflections on the concept of hero included the idea of facing obstacles or hardships. In what ways does your hero fit this aspect of the hero archetype? (Give specific details, including page numbers.)
Our "hero" Holden is not much of a hero yet at this point in the book, but so far...displays this particular type of hero because of that he's come face to face with many hardships such as his suspension at Pencey Prep School.
What are 1-2 substantive questions you have about the novel (i.e. character motivation, author/narrative style, cultural/historical background or context)
Is there any logical reason why Holden asks the way he does? (Why does he always lie alot, is he usually grumpy, why does he hate his family?)
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